tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post114563638373897685..comments2024-03-28T18:35:54.237+09:00Comments on BigHominid's Hairy Chasms: a certain sicknessKevin Kimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01328790917314282058noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post-1146145570609220182006-04-27T22:46:00.000+09:002006-04-27T22:46:00.000+09:00dogbert,I haven't tried-- my Korean's not good eno...dogbert,<BR/><BR/>I haven't tried-- my Korean's not good enough to scan the news-- but it's a good question that I hope you'll re-ask on more prominent blogs than this one (if you haven't already). I'd be curious to know, too.<BR/><BR/><BR/>KevinKevin Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01328790917314282058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post-1145705012337681132006-04-22T20:23:00.000+09:002006-04-22T20:23:00.000+09:00Kevin,Posts like this are exactly why your blog is...Kevin,<BR/><BR/>Posts like this are exactly why your blog is on my "must read" list. I was going to put down "must read every day" but lately, I've been a bit lax in that department.<BR/>I'm not going to jump (no pun intended) into the suicide discussion because I have some pretty strong views on that subject and I may come across as sounding rather callous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post-1145696378092899532006-04-22T17:59:00.000+09:002006-04-22T17:59:00.000+09:00A thoughtful comment, Kevin, and thanks for your k...A thoughtful comment, Kevin, and thanks for your kind words!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post-1145682654133084952006-04-22T14:10:00.000+09:002006-04-22T14:10:00.000+09:00Nathan,I think that you, Jelly, Brian, and I are a...Nathan,<BR/><BR/>I think that you, Jelly, Brian, and I are all in agreement that we're looking at a "drama attempt" and not a suicide attempt. Jelly said it more directly than I did in my meandering post, but my point of view is the same as hers and yours with regard to the act we see in the photo.<BR/><BR/>Regarding callousness: I hope I'd made clear in my post that I would do what I could for a suicidal person, so I think we're in agreement at least as regards how to <I>act</I> toward someone who is currently suicidal. It wouldn't be a time to reveal exasperation or impatience, nor a time to rail about how <I>selfish</I> suicide is, as extreme acts go.<BR/><BR/>I've known my own darkness-- not enough to want to kill myself, but I've come close. I can, on an intellectual level, understand what you're saying about the suicidal mindset. But I'm also a stubborn asshole who refuses to give up hope in any situation if hope is there to be found, so on an emotional level, I can't relate.<BR/><BR/>And I certainly don't knock the fact that suicidal people often need outside help. However, there's this: we make choices, even when we're in a suicidal mood. We are still responsible for our actions. The help we might receive during our period of darkness is no help at all if we aren't, at some basic level, willing to <I>choose</I> to live.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps I need to work on my empathy. Maybe I've been in Korea too long, because many Korean men think like I do: when someone's in trouble, you don't respond with comforting words, but with scolding and guilt trips! Ha ha!<BR/><BR/>The other issue, the cosmetic one you bring up, is easily answered. I wove the issues of suicide and theatricality together because the theater was about the portrayal of suicide. Mr. Yang wasn't kneeling on those stone steps with a bouquet in front of him, chanting Hare Krishna mantras, though he could have done so.<BR/><BR/>It should be noted, too, that many suicides, even when not public, have an element of drama to them. A given suicide is, more often than not, a communicative gesture: there's an aspect of "I want my body to be found so that people will know!" Very few people take a gun, trudge deep into the wilderness, and quietly do themselves in-- no note, no nothing.<BR/><BR/>In your own case, Nathan, I admire the fact that you chose to seek help for your depression and that you've come out stronger for it. Believe me, I'm happy to have you around, and the world is a better place because you're here. That, to me, is a more eloquent argument against suicide than anything we might say or write.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Kevin<BR/><BR/>PS: You know what truly pissed me off? The suicide attempt in the Taegu subway system a couple years ago, where the dude trying to immolate himself <I>lived</I> while hundreds of others died. That man's case is an extreme example of suicide's selfishness. And in his case, I <I>do not</I> consider it a good thing that he lived. He should have perished in his own flames.Kevin Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01328790917314282058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post-1145680064852664852006-04-22T13:27:00.000+09:002006-04-22T13:27:00.000+09:00Oh yah, and this post made me dream of seppuku - a...Oh yah, and this post made me dream of seppuku - and I realized the helping hand in the photo of Mr. Yang would have been holding a sword, were this a proper "quasi-Japanese manner" of killing yourself.<BR/>Buddy would have chopped off Mr. Yang's head. That would have been pretty dramatic, eh?Jellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17527405263030519383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post-1145679752598159742006-04-22T13:22:00.000+09:002006-04-22T13:22:00.000+09:00I agree, what I said seems callous- but I didn't m...I agree, what I said seems callous- but I didn't mean "suicide is lame" to be a brusque pssshhh-aw. However, it IS lame. I understand being depressed, and have had my own bouts over the years. Sometimes I think most of the people on Earth currently are, and surely just about everyone has gone through a depression at one point or another. With my friend, way back when, that was her 3rd attempt - and I apologized for sounding so blunt. The point was, I wanted her to know that I understood she was in trouble, and likewise I wanted her to understand how other people were being affected. We ended up having a long talk about things, and she did end up getting help and getting through.<BR/>But the havoc suicide causes for the friends and family - even after a loved one makes an attempt -- it makes me want to be callous.<BR/>Way back when I was in highschool it was like depression was some kind of secret shame. These days though, it's so chic to have a shrink and be on meds. (Maybe not so much in Korea, but,...)<BR/>What about Mr. Yang? Is he depressed or just cuckoo? Or is he a hero, bringing attention to whatever cause is biting his ass?Jellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17527405263030519383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post-1145678791774584862006-04-22T13:06:00.000+09:002006-04-22T13:06:00.000+09:00Kevin,If I can put on my pop-psychology hat for a ...Kevin,<BR/><BR/>If I can put on my pop-psychology hat for a moment, I think it's the han of every Korean person that triggers this sort of self-abuse. BY harming themselves in such a manner, it brings a close psychological bond with their anscestors, people who suffered real hardship and injustice.<BR/><BR/>There's a psych thesis in there somewhere... let me tell you.<BR/><BR/>BrianAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post-1145674794123034622006-04-22T11:59:00.000+09:002006-04-22T11:59:00.000+09:00I'm not sure why the issues of suicide and theatri...I'm not sure why the issues of suicide and theatricality are brought together, here: the picture clearly shows something that was nothing more than a short-term publicity stunt. There was no suicide attempt.<BR/>---<BR/>As a formerly-depressed person, I can say that a person can be driven to suicide at any age. Chronic emotional pain to the nth degree is often worse than physical pain because the individual may have trouble making sense of it. In that sense, there is no difference between the terminally ill patient and the depressive who thinks there is no way out: they are both in great pain. Furthermore, clinically depressed people usually have some kind of chemical imbalance in the brain. (My personal theory is that we choose the composition of that balance to some degree: if I choose to think happy thoughts, I will be more happy, and will have better brain chemistry; but for many it's too late for a simple "positive thinking" experiment to help them.)<BR/><BR/>I once had the experience of taking a 4am telephone call from a classmate who was rattling a bottle of pills in her hand and threatening to do herself in. I didn't really know this classmate, so I was surprised. First, I listened to her, and assured her that she would feel better. I told her that there would be another man for her (she had broken up with her boyfriend). Then, I had her close up the bottle and put it away. After that, we planned her next day together. Finally, I encouraged her to see her doctor. A few days later, I told her that I didn't have the wherewithal to be her counsellor, but I told her her doctor could do more for her than I could. And I left it at that. She's still alive. I didn't have to be either callous or over-the-top in giving up my own energy and time to someone I didn't really know, someone who was going to need professional help.<BR/><BR/>I'm not saying we all need to form a big group hug and undergo therapy together, but I do think we should be careful about being needlessly callous. The whole "suicide is so lame" mantra is usually only spoken by those who have never walked in the moccasins of utter darkness. I also think it functions as a kind of guilt trip on those who are thinking of suicide--which I don't think is a good way to approach things. Of course, sometimes Dr. Phil-style "tough love" is best, but it doesn't work for everyone. <BR/><BR/>In my own case, a combination of twice-weekly professional help, and some great friends helped me pull through my own rough period some years ago, and I'll always be very grateful to them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post-1145646394413994232006-04-22T04:06:00.000+09:002006-04-22T04:06:00.000+09:00By the way, as you surely know, seppuku is meant t...By the way, as you surely know, seppuku is meant to get the job done. With a wakizashi (short sword) or tanto (knife) the person should "plunge it into his abdomen, making first a left-to-right cut and then a second slightly upward stroke to spill out the intestines."<BR/>C'mon Mr. Yang, where's your GUTS?Jellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17527405263030519383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post-1145645841982045762006-04-22T03:57:00.000+09:002006-04-22T03:57:00.000+09:00I hear what you're saying Kevin. I've been thinkin...I hear what you're saying Kevin. I've been thinking about this a lot lately - the drama that goes on here in protesting something. <BR/>Lighting yourself afire seems to have so much more flare (yah, pun) that chopping off a digit or sticking a knife barely in you. Suicide attempt? How about drama attempt?<BR/><BR/>In high school, after my good friend's 3rd weak attempt at suicide we had a talk. I wasn't meaning to "dare" her into anything - but I noted she lived on the 18th floor of an apartment building. Instad of slashing her wrists with broken bit of mirror - why didn't she just jump out the window? Better yet, why didn't she just recognize what we all knew -- that she was having trouble and needed some help, and GET help?<BR/><BR/>At 16 years of age I can understand suicide as a protest to life's unfairness, or your inability to cope. At Mr. Yang's age, well, I just don't get it. If he had shoved the knife in all the way (is that so hard?) would anything have changed -- or would it just be viewed as it might be back in North America - as one fucked up soul "trying" to put an end to his problems "in the name of" some other shit?<BR/><BR/>It seems like some kind of sad martyr attempt. I try to be empathetic, but rarely hear stories that are outright tragic. Other than, as you mentioned, terminal or such cases, I think suicide is so lame.Jellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17527405263030519383noreply@blogger.com