tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post8732619698959061369..comments2024-03-29T11:29:58.276+09:00Comments on BigHominid's Hairy Chasms: why Korea has little to fearKevin Kimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01328790917314282058noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post-12282725339613049352007-04-19T01:03:00.000+09:002007-04-19T01:03:00.000+09:00Elisson,There are two ways I can go on this, I thi...Elisson,<BR/><BR/>There are two ways I can go on this, I think: <BR/><BR/>1. The VA Tech killer was pretty rational and methodical in his actions;<BR/><BR/>2. The 9/11 attacks, while methodical and extremely well coordinated, were founded upon what might be paradoxically called a doctrine of irrationalism. In other words-- what sane, civilized people would seek to do such a thing?<BR/><BR/>While I'm not married to this analogy of mine, I think the imagery I used expresses the basic point that Koreans aren't the type to be screaming "Allahu akbar!" in the streets when a bunch of Americans get killed, and this obtains whether the number of American dead is 32 or 3000. That's really the point I was trying to make.<BR/><BR/>So the more I think about it, the more I think it's inappropriate to say that I was striving to draw analogies between 9/11 and this incident <I>as if I were doing a historical comparison.</I> No: my point was merely to compare the responses of two disparate people to the sudden and tragic loss of many American lives. That, for me, was the relevant point of comparison: the level of civilization evident in the respective responses. Perhaps I should have made this clearer in my original essay.<BR/><BR/>Even when Koreans were demonstrating against America after the 2002 accident in which two Korean schoolgirls were killed, Koreans did not actively seek expat Americans out, drag them into the street, and beat them to death. Compare this with, say, the Muslim response in various countries after the Muhammad cartoon incident, in which certain Muslims, furious over a perceived slight to their religion, burned down embassies and threatened Westerners with death.<BR/><BR/>So I'll happily grant the disanalogies that you and Charles are pointing out, but will humbly insist that the focus for my comparison is more on how two groups of people <I>react</I> to American tragedies and not on the specifics of those tragedies.<BR/><BR/><BR/>KevinKevin Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01328790917314282058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post-21070653333907622382007-04-19T00:13:00.000+09:002007-04-19T00:13:00.000+09:00I tend to agree with Charles here. You cannot dra...I tend to agree with Charles here. You cannot draw an analogy between the attacks of 9/11, which were well-planned, coordinated assaults on American targets, committed by an organized entity to further the agenda of Islamist radicalism, and the actions of a deranged individual.<BR/><BR/>In the case of the 9/11 attacks (and the Palestinian celebrations that followed), there was an undeniable cultural/ethnic component. Americans showed great restraint by not attacking local resident Muslims <I>en masse</I> - and, of course, such attacks would have been unjustified, being the result of entirely justifiable (but misdirected) anger.<BR/><BR/>But the Virginia Tech massacre was the action of a single, deranged individual. His ethnicity or cultural background is irrelevant. For Americans to impute his actions to a purported defect in Koreans in general would be completely ridiculous...and I can't, for the life of me, see it happening.Elissonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06299361897381169534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post-80830696797788293672007-04-18T23:23:00.000+09:002007-04-18T23:23:00.000+09:00Charles,It would be nice if neat and tidy analogie...Charles,<BR/><BR/>It would be nice if neat and tidy analogies abounded, but alas, they don't. All analogies fail in some way; some are, perhaps, neater than others. I admit this wasn't the neatest analogy; it puts the "anal" in "analogy," truth be told. But I think it points in the right direction.<BR/><BR/><BR/>KevinKevin Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01328790917314282058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post-13908431804849412042007-04-18T21:47:00.000+09:002007-04-18T21:47:00.000+09:00Hmm... I see what you're saying. It's just that so...Hmm... I see what you're saying. It's just that something about the analogy rubs me the wrong way. I can't quite put my finger on it, though.<BR/><BR/>Demonstrating over the death of two girls is an entirely different thing than celebrating the deaths of over thirty people. The demonstrations were expressing outrage and frustration at the deaths.<BR/><BR/>I'm a bit confused about the second paragraph in your comment as well. You're not saying that, were it not for a "civilized impulse," Koreans would be openly celebrating this tragedy, are you? I don't see it as an issue of anyone holding anything back--that would seem to imply that the impulse would be to celebrate death.<BR/><BR/>As for the planning, yeah, I will admit that there probably was some planning involved. But the planning isn't as important as the intended message. I don't think Cho was trying to send a message of hate against Americans, just rich people and women (from what I've heard). I think that is the primary difference.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I do see your point. The analogy still bothers me, but I understand why you made it, and I agree with the point you are making through it, so I'll let it go. If you want to address any of the issues via email rather than cluttering up the comments, that's cool. If not, that's cool too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post-23457545848266232402007-04-18T20:45:00.000+09:002007-04-18T20:45:00.000+09:00But unreasonable to which side?At the risk of unde...But unreasonable to which side?<BR/><BR/>At the risk of undercutting my own "they're civilized people" claim, I'd note that Koreans don't seem to need much justification (from a Western point of view, anyway) to gather en masse in huge demonstrations. The death of two girls was enough to bring out the thundering horde.<BR/><BR/>To me, the lack of open celebration of the deaths of several dozen Americans indicates that something is holding Koreans back. I'd like to think it's a civilized impulse. It's probably also rooted in Korea's "face/shame" culture, but reducing Korean motives to that would be uncharitable.<BR/><BR/>Instead of focusing on the disanalogous elements, I prefer to focus on what's similar: sudden disaster visited upon the innocent. <BR/><BR/>And it's quite possible that the VA Tech killings were carefully planned, too: if it turns out, for example, that Cho was behind the recent bomb threats and was testing campus security. The fact that he was loaded down with ammo and had chains to lock a building's doors is another sign of premeditaton. So I'd say there are enough elements to at least construct an analogy.<BR/><BR/><BR/>KevinKevin Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01328790917314282058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5541500.post-3543367232657425942007-04-18T19:46:00.000+09:002007-04-18T19:46:00.000+09:00While I agree with the overall message of your pos...While I agree with the overall message of your post, can we really compare this shooting to 9-11? The two events are entirely different in nature--one was a carefully planned assault on a nation with the intent of sending a message, while the other was a very troubled individual lashing out in a very selfish way. I do understand (and agree) with what you are saying, I just think the comparison might be a little unreasonable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com