On John McCrarey's blog, after reading yet another of John's awful jokes, I wrote the following comment in response:
...my new pet psychological theory is that, as men get older, they take a perverse pleasure in deliberately being unfunny, thus introducing a new layer of metahumor: laughter provoked by awkwardness. The humor falls flat, and the rest of us are forced to give a pained smile, laugh politely, and cringe as we wait for the next burst of humorless humor. The only question is why men become like this. I see it happening in myself, too. Does the urge spring from some desire to be useful and/or relevant? If so, why does it manifest as something so off-putting (or at least cringeworthy)? More research is needed. Of course, a lot depends on whether the old jokester himself realizes he’s being unfunny. Some obviously don’t (Dunning-Kruger effect), but some old men know exactly what they’re doing, which is why I used the phrase “perverse pleasure.”
Ah—I see there’s a lot of information on the topic.
One of the articles at the link is a 2022 Newsweek piece:
Why Some People Love Telling Bad Jokes, According to Science
Most people will know someone who loves to make others wince with a bad joke. For some individuals, though, having a dodgy sense of humor is a compulsion that can affect their day-to-day lives.
The condition of pathological joking is known as witzelsucht, described as the excessive telling of inappropriate or pointless jokes. The word comes from the German words for joke, 'witz', and addiction, 'sucht'.
The condition was investigated in a 2016 study by California doctors Elias Granadillo and Mario Mendez. They outlined two cases: One of a 69-year-old man, who experienced a personality change, developing a tendency to compulsively make jokes after he experienced a bleed in the brain ten years prior. He also developed characteristics such as a fixation on recycling, and began making "borderline offensive comments."
The patient himself said in an interview—which no doubt was slightly difficult as the patient kept cracking jokes—that he reported feeling happy generally but that his compulsive need to make jokes had become an issue with his wife and would even wake her up in the middle of the night to tell them to her.
The other patient investigated in the study was a 57-year-old man whose behavior had become erratic around three years prior. He had started to tell childish jokes and laugh easily at his own comments and was generally lacking inhibition. He also purchased almost two dozen Hawaiian shirts and at one point went six weeks without bathing.
Otherwise, he had mostly normal results from neurologic examination and an unremarkable medical history. He died over a decade later after deteriorating in cognition and developing parkinsonism; an autopsy also revealed that he had Pick's disease, a form of the behavioral variant of Frontotemporal dementia (bvFTD).
The authors of the 2016 study concluded that the two patients' pathological humor was linked to damage in the bifrontal areas of their brains. One aspect that linked them was that although they would find their own jokes very funny, they did not experience other peoples' jokes as amusing.
The study notes that damage to the right frontal lobe in particular appeared to be "critical" to pathological humor.
I still think my own theory is better. I doubt John has any brain lesions or bleeds or other conditions to explain his love of bad humor and his compulsion to tell awful jokes. I simply think it's the destiny of most of us males to become like John, to revel in the groans and the pained expressions, whether we know we're being lame or not. Cf. my dad.





Fan of the blog but that is one fucking depressing post
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome.
DeleteCognitive decline basically begins at 25, when brain development ends. It's interesting qua phenomenon how people express that in later life, which I agree begins at 50ish. But to relegate all non-conformist expression of behaviour to a disease -you are right- sucks. Unless we call that disease life. I agree with you that the blogger you refer to is not expressing the symptoms of a condition through his like of puns. Kingsley Amis, in his later years, grew so antipathetic to the pretensions of modernistic literature that he said he could not get on with a novel that didn't begin with a sentence like, "A shot rang out." Perhaps Mcrarey, similarly long in tooth, can't withstand the bullshit of contemporary "political" humour, for example, which isn't humour. It's just politics. It's a defence mechanism we all gravitate towards as a we begin the unconscious journey to depart a more recognizably insane world.
ReplyDeleteI would also learn toward a sociological explanation rather than a physiological one, but I don't think it stems from a desire to be useful or relevant. I think instead it might be a leaning into the fact that we become less useful/relevant as the years go by. One might revel in one's own unhipness and flaunt it with awful jokes. I can't say I've given this a lot of thought, but that's my initial impression.
ReplyDeleteInteresting theory. Now, I think we can both agree that, as we get older, the desire to be useful or relevant does increase as we sense life passing us by; there's a whole "Star Trek: The Next Generation" episode about that. But whether that desire is the source of a compulsion to make bad jokes is another matter. Further complicating the issue is that, as some men get older, they become less humorous and more direct and terse, as if they realized that time is not to be wasted. So what's the source of that tendency? And why do some men go one way—towards bad humor—while other men go another way—toward terseness?
DeleteUseful, yes, but I'm not sure about "relevant." I suppose it depends on what we mean by that. If we mean "relevant to the people in our lives," then sure. If it means "culturally relevant," though... well, I gave up on that a long time ago. That's what I was thinking about in terms of relevance. Culture left us behind long ago, so we might as well get some entertainment value out of our cultural irrelevance.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I'm not sure this phenomenon is restricted to men. I was watching a YT video with HJ earlier and there was a street sign that read "Afro Nation." HJ said, "아프로 네이션... 뒤로 네이션도 있을까?" Then she glanced sidelong at me with a little smirk on her face. I felt equal parts agony and pride.
So, not all men, and maybe even not only men.
Well, I know SNL has had female characters who were deliberately jokey in a painful way, but in general, it's not something I see as often among the womenfolk of any country. My French maman has always, since I've known her, been quietly serious. My #3 Ajumma has always been loudly serious, and when she jokes, it's never to slip in horrible puns. None of my female Korean instructors (and they were all female) ever struck me as the corny-humor type. My great aunt Gertrude was bright and cheerful, but never given to puns... I think HJ may be a rarity.
DeleteThat doesn't mean I deny that women can be corny, too, as they age, but I do think this problem is more of a male one. Maybe specifically American male, but I do seem to remember learning a few puns from my French papa, who was probably glad to have me as fresh, appreciative ears for his old jokes. I'll have to ask Dominique about his dad's sense of humor at some point. I do remember, though, that when I spoke with Papa in 2018, while his eyesight was worsening, he seemed a lot less jokey.
If we mean "relevant to the people in our lives," then sure.
Yes, that's approximately what I meant. Relevant in the sense of having value or import, as with someone who is still able to provoke a laugh if nothing else. Even if it's a lame, grudging, pained, or strained laugh.
Hey, I resemble those remarks! I know, I know, thousands of comedians out of work, and I'M trying to be funny... Anyway, it's good that my bad puns finally achieved the level of fame that only comes with being featured on the esteemed Hairy Chasms blog. Thank you for that!
ReplyDeleteSeriously, though, I've been a jokester all my life, but I'll concede with age, my humor has gotten, well, older and less relevant and funny. I'm not sure if I ever cared, but these days, a smirk or a groan in response is almost as satisfying as a laugh. I don't know how settled the science cited in those studies might be, but I think humor deterioration is probably just another aspect of the aging process.
I thought about ending this comment with a bad pun, but I'm sure you've heard them all by now. I'm funny when you're drunk, but you don't drink, so I'm screwed.